The Socialistic Shit-Case

[MMI]

Good reply, Matin. Yes, it is wrong to interfere with sovereign nations' affairs, as a pretty much hard-and-fast rule. But there are times when it must be done. Zimbabwe and darfur and Congo are places where we should be. Civil government has broken down or has abandoned its role to let horrific violence rule instead. If a state has no effective government, it has no claim to sovereignty, and other states can step in. It might be an invading force by a neighbour, which is probably not a desirable occurrence because who knows how one nation will treat its subjugated enemies; or it might be a UN sponsored "peace" force which will let a legitimate government emerge while dealing with immediate problems humanely.

Thailand? An invasion's not justified, but the nation should be boycotted and travel to that country prohibited until its sex trade reaches internationally acceptable standards.

Philipines? Since when has economic mismanagement been a reason for invasion. And many countries suffer from poverty, because they are poor. But if the rulers are deliberately causing death and starvation when they have the means to prevent it, then, yes, invade. The Philipines is one of your ex-colonies, so the primary responsibility would be yours, I guess. Over to you.

Iraq and Afghanistan. Foolish in the extreme to have invaded Afghanistan. I don't think anyone since the Ottomans has had any success in that department. Britain tried three times in the 18th & 19th centuries, and failed dismally, Russia failed in the 20th century (thanks to American sponsored Osama bin Laden) and now the united forces of USA, Britain and a motley crew of other nations are going to have to find a way to deal with the Taliban that doesn't look like defeat.

Incompetent to have invaded Iraq. Having first done so illegally (and other nations should have driven us out) we failed to consolidate our occupation and allowed the country to fall into worse anarchy than before.

Sure it's a good thing Saddam is dead, but his death doesn't justify the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi deaths caused by the US in their misdirected desire for vengeance. And the lawless state of the country now is down to us alone. As there is no-one to force us to recognise our faults, we must recognise them ourselves, and take steps to put things right.

As for socio-economic Darwinism, that's a misnomer for sure, but a pox on it anyway. I don't get pissed off when banks are bailed our or motor companies saved. I give thanks for all the jobs that have been saved, for the families (American families as well) that can carry on into the New Year with hope, or if not that, then relief. I regret the companies that have not been saved and the consequent misery that the unemployed people will go through. Because the fact they lost their jobs wasn't their fault. They were working away industriously and usefully - if not to say profitably - until CAPITALISTS decided not to make any more capital available, and drove them out of work and onto the tender mercies of a government whose electors say, if you can't get a job, you can't have any support.

There but for fortune, go you and I.

[Matin]

Good reply, Matin......There but for fortune, go you and I.

lol just making it clear what i'm responding to.

socio-economic darwinism is just a term i use because other people will 'get it'. throw it away i don't care. but i believe in the idea. i believe in cause and effect. i believe in responsibility and consequence.

if i choose to to work for a company that exists on shaky footing, then it goes under, well, time to move on. even if i just happened to get laid off. move on. that's life. it's not fair, it's not nice, and it's not something that we can make user friendly.

there will always be horror and brutality in the world. it will be here till we as a race get sick of it and change. until then there will always be one more thing to fix, one more country to save, one more WAR TO WAGE until we are left wrecked and ruined also.

so we become byzantium. we build the best and brightest civilisation we can and survive the economic craziness and the terror. we try to lead by example. we try to show the world what we all have the capacity to become.

and for a parting shot; how can we ever hope to fix anything when our own houses are in such disarray? hipocrisy much?

(btw guys great thread )