Gun History

[Logic1]

WB. every single one of those countries that you mentioned had "one party systems" and were ruled by dictator or the likes so comparing that to US today or any other western country isnt a valid comparison in my book.

With statistics you can prove pretty much everything you wish to prove. It is just a matter of asking the right questions or using the numbers you get in a way you wish to prove whatever you wish.

Personally I am a citizen WITH or without a gun.
Do you feel scared of your own government, then it is time to get a new one!
I live in Sweden and we DO have guncontrol and still we are I think nr8 in the list of number of guns /100k citizens a country.
I am definitely pro guncontrol though

the question is here. Is this a general talk thread or is it a politics thread

[Warbaby1943]

WB. every single one of those countries that you mentioned had "one party systems" and were ruled by dictator or the likes so comparing that to US today or any other western country isnt a valid comparison in my book.

OK I'll play the devil's advocate even though I have already stated that those words are not mine, I just passed them along. In any case, does it matter what kind of ruling system you have once your citizens are disarmed and the only legal guns are in the hands of your military?

the question is here. Is this a general talk thread or is it a politics thread

What's your point or better yet does it really matter which it is? I think we are developing General Talk here.

[Logic1]

OK I'll play the devil's advocate even though I have already stated that those words are not mine, I just passed them along. In any case, does it matter what kind of ruling system you have once your citizens are disarmed and the only legal guns are in the hands of your military?


What's your point or better yet does it really matter which it is? I think we are developing General Talk here.

the difference is if you think you need to fear your government or not imho.
One party states tends to be more dangerous for the citizens than a democracy like those both you and me live in.

dont know but it could turn political but I am game for discussions here in any case.

[Ozme52]

One party states tends to be more dangerous for the citizens than a democracy like those both you and me live in.

Tell that to the Weimar Replublic...

Hitler was elected/chosen in a multi-party system. Then he declared a national emergency.

The President of the USA has the ability to declare a national emergency... which would, among other things, suspend national elections.

[Ozme52]

WB. every single one of those countries that you mentioned had "one party systems" and were ruled by dictator or the likes so comparing that to US today or any other western country isnt a valid comparison in my book.

The USA just barely qualifies... and maybe not at all. There are a lot of people here who believe we just have two flavors of the same party, with the same agendas, just different approaches on how to get there.

With statistics you can prove pretty much everything you wish to prove. It is just a matter of asking the right questions or using the numbers you get in a way you wish to prove whatever you wish.

Actually 50% of all statistics are 100% correct half the time....

Personally I am a citizen WITH or without a gun.
Do you feel scared of your own government, then it is time to get a new one!

Sometimes I have to wonder. Right now I'm none too comfortable. I compare the freedoms and choices I had as a young adult to now and I do have to wonder. The rights my father had that I don't? Yeah, they're being eroded away.

[Sir_G]

WB. every single one of those countries that you mentioned had "one party systems" and were ruled by dictator or the likes so comparing that to US today or any other western country isnt a valid comparison in my book.

With statistics you can prove pretty much everything you wish to prove. It is just a matter of asking the right questions or using the numbers you get in a way you wish to prove whatever you wish.

The stats that have been quoted in the initial post are pretty spot on. I'm Australian and would go so far as to say things have actually gotten worse than when they were collated.

I'm suprised at the naivety of some of the posts in this thread. One Party systems commit the atrocities cited much more efficiently than "democracies" but don't kid yourself that democracies don't do it. They tend to do it overseas in other countries rather than at home where the populace are armed. The U.S. is a case in point as is Australia for that matter. Our Prime Minister has even gone as far as to say he has a "mandate" from the people to enact whatever laws he wants, when he wants and has done so. So logic I think the comparison is more than valid.

How many deaths are George Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard and the rest of the coalition of the willing personally responsible for. They wave a flag called democracy and their cause is to stamp out all the evil terrorists. Yet with all those recourses Bin Laden still produces and releases his videos and terrorists proliferate world wide. Is it just a side show to distract the worlds population from a bigger hidden agenda like eroding our freedoms ie the Patriot Act in the U.S. and all the other legislation that has been brought in world wide to "protect us" from that evil. Here in Australia they promote and advertise that we should dob in our neighbors if we see or hear anything suspicious. The catch cry is Be Alert Not Alarmed. They encourage suspicion, mistrust and betrayal of friends and family if necessary.

Politicians have manipulated statistics for as long as they have been around. As have lobby groups, corporations, clubs etc etc. They will continue to do so. Criminals have armed themselves since Adam was a boy and will continue to do so. Why people are so bent out of shape about law abiding citizens owning guns for recreational sports, self defence, sorting out corrupt governments and invaders is beyond me.

In my humble opinion a well armed law abiding populace keeps the government somewhat in check and honest...scratch honest leave in check. Have checks in place such as criminal background, citizenship and mental health checks to weed out the villains. (yes I know villains will find ways to circumvent them) But I am talking about law abiding people here.

In a perfect world we wouldn't need any of this including guns. But it isn't and I see issues such as protecting our freedoms, right to walk down the street unmolested, the right to open and honest government as a personal responsibility. The moment we hand it to others to take care of is when we lose it. Be active, speak up and vote in elections before you lose that right too.

*Looks around, my goodness there was still soap in that box. Look at all the suds, blub.*