Need advice! RE: Moving overseas for your loved one

Hey everyone,

I've never been a huge contributor to the forums but the time has finally come where I need to humbly tell my personal story to all of the interwebs and just hope that good advice comes back to me. So srsly, if you have good advice, please, give it to me :)

Anyway so, I'm moving to Sweden from the US, and I have to go through a whole visa process (there's different kinds of visas, and i'm getting a "give me a visa because of my relationship with a swedish person" visa).

The process includes having to say the dates that you've met, including photos so that they know you've seen eachother in person, proving that you've had communication, etc... But there's also some questions on the application that make me nervous. Such as, "How did you meet?"

I can't say, "he posted a really raunchy personal on the bdsmlibrary and i replied because i was bored and looking for hot OnLiNeAcTioN!" But if I say "the internet" or "a message board" they might want to know which one, and we don't both have accounts on any boards besides this one so they could prove it if we lied and... well, as much as I don't want to tell the nice lady at the embassy that I'm a wonton, depraved slut, I also just don't want to defraud the Swedish government.

Or, "From what date do you consider yourself a couple?" Well, the answer is simple. From January 14th, 2009. The day that, in my slave journal (or "slut diary" lol), I started referring to him as "Master" because I felt him naturally shifting from giving me tasks to taking control of my life. I also cannot tell the nice lady at the embassy this. But I can't think of a not-defrauding-the-government way to explain that randomass date. I could say, from the moment we met face-to-face (June), but that's cheating ourselves out of 6 good months of Non-Stop Communication Rock that I want to the nice lady at the embassy to take into account.

I can't even prove that we have had contact since January, because that was all through email or my diaries or the bdsmlibrary, lol. And not one "innocent" interaction among them -- we have always both firmly been in our places, and not afraid to communicate it to one another. It's great for our relationship but crap for proving that we've known one another for a year. It's not a HUGE panic situation, because we've met in real life multiple times, spent months together, have pictures to prove it, know all about each other's lives, etc. etc. But I wanted to put this out there in case I run into any pitfalls, or in case someone has some good advice for me.

So anyway, with that long-winded bit of background, here're my questions:

For people who have experienced this ballbreaker of a process:
Do these details really matter? What was your own application/interview experience like, and were you able to just tell them the truth without having to show background evidence that might have incriminated you? Should I not worry about them finding out about the kink and just say "here look at this slutty diary, it's dated January 2009"? Or do I just be as vague as possible and hope? Really just... gimme advice and tell me what happened to you, lol. I figure, there's gotta be lots of people who have met through here and done the same thing.

For people who have not experienced this but are kind enough to contribute:
Can you think of any clever ways to disguise the fact that I met my Master through the bdsmlibrary, when all of my contact with him from the beginning was slut-based? lol. Any clever ideas as to what I should do, in general? Know anything about the immigration process through hearsay?

To everyone who made it through this, thank you so much. And thank you in advance, lovely forums-ers, for your help.

I really wish I could help, but I'm stumped. However I really hope you can figure something out, I never really thought about how difficult explaining this situation could be.

In as much as it's the Swedish government asking you, why don't you ask him what would or would not be appropriate to say to get into his country.

Ask the Swedish government? :)

I mean, my Master doesn't know his government personally so of course we've talked about it but haven't yielded any definitive solutions.

Though I should say we assume that we will err on the side of caution and discretion so the "Should I show them my slut chronicles?" question was sort of fake, and just thrown out there in the case that someone fits the oddly specific scenario of being in my current situation and choosing to not hide their relationship and having it work out.

If said oddly specific people are out there, HOLLER. All others with useful advice will still be heeded, of course.

I am going through this process in reverse, going to america.

In terms of how did you meet, we stated that we met on a social networking site (which this can be considered as), and have innocent photo's of us together etc. It doesn't change the fact that I am still a little nervous regarding getting asked that question at the interview.

In terms of showing communication, I would suggest sending the occasional vanilla email to each other, that you can show immigration officials. You should not need absolute proof of relationship from day one (say you deleted it or whatever), you mostly just have to prove the legitimacy of your relationship and in the case of US immigration that you have met in person within the last 2 years (i.e to include plane tickets, boarding cards, passport stamps etc)

Personally I would try and focus more on the relationship side, than the nature of your relationship specifically, but it is important not to lie, and jepodise everything.

Regards,

Arch

Thanks Archeon! My Master and I might have to go through the same process in a few years, when he's done with school, if we move back to the States. If it's not too personal, can I ask what visa you are applying for? Is it a fiancee one? That was the only thing we saw when searching through move-to-america options (which we didn't do that thoroughly, honestly, because it gave me hives). It'd be good to know what someone else has done.

And thanks for the advice. We have loads of vanilla stuff, pics, and things like envelopes (he kept the cards, lol "for sentimentality") with postmarks, as well as you know, passports/plane itineraries. I guess the fear comes from the frustration that we might still be denied (especially because we're both very young)... And anyone who has seen us together or could read a fraction of the things we've written to one another would know how much we love eachother, and how real our relationship is. That's why I don't like not being able to show them all of our interactions. He is The One, capital T capital O, and I guess I'm just posting this here because of the stress/rage at the thought that someone else has final say on whether or not it's legit, and want to give myself the best odds...

We are applying for a K-1 visa, which is the fiancé one.

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Originally Posted by pervertedpages

Thanks Archeon! My Master and I might have to go through the same process in a few years, when he's done with school, if we move back to the States. If it's not too personal, can I ask what visa you are applying for? Is it a fiancee one? That was the only thing we saw when searching through move-to-america options (which we didn't do that thoroughly, honestly, because it gave me hives). It'd be good to know what someone else has done.

And thanks for the advice. We have loads of vanilla stuff, pics, and things like envelopes (he kept the cards, lol "for sentimentality") with postmarks, as well as you know, passports/plane itineraries. I guess the fear comes from the frustration that we might still be denied (especially because we're both very young)... And anyone who has seen us together or could read a fraction of the things we've written to one another would know how much we love eachother, and how real our relationship is. That's why I don't like not being able to show them all of our interactions. He is The One, capital T capital O, and I guess I'm just posting this here because of the stress/rage at the thought that someone else has final say on whether or not it's legit, and want to give myself the best odds...

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You are not the only one that is frustrated with someone else getting the final say on the legitimacy of your relationship! I feel the same way. I am keeping a positive attitude about it all and just treating it as when W/we get approved instead of "if" because as i see it, there is no real justification for turning U/us down. Also, i have some faith that i would not have fallen in love w/ Master and been through all that W/we have been through if there wasn't some reason for it, ie "W/we are meant to be." I guess maybe that might be the hopeless romantic in me talking, but it keeps me going. :) You are not alone in this and glad to be of any support if you need it.

Bluefarie, very happily owned by Master Archeon

NOT giving you legal advice, but here's my question: Why don't you want to tell the nice lady at the embassy your true story? Is it because it's personal and possibly embarrassing, or because you think that it will make your relationship look less real? The reason I ask is, if it's in any way the first reason, just put that aside. Do and say and reveal whatever you need to to have your best chances of success.

With that said, especially if you think that the kink will somehow detract from the legitimacy of your relationship, I would include the correct dates and information, but in a neutral vanilla way. You met on a social networking site due to shared interests. In time you learned that you had much more in common, became close, finally met in person and spent a great deal of time together. Present as much of the vanilla details up front. Then, if you're asked, you can reveal what you need to to corroborate your story, including emails etc, so long as they are in the context of the larger relationship you've already provided the evidence for.

@bluefarie, thank you for your words of support. i secretly already knew that you and your Master were going through the same situation as us (though didn't know that we were going through the relocation part at the same time)... Not because I'm a creepy stalker but because months ago my Master said "hey slave guess what happened today, i talked to this guy in chat who ALSO met the love of his life in person this summer and realized it was meant to be!" And I felt we shared a connection, even if we were strangers. (Ok so I'm a little creepy, lol... *shuffles feet awkwardly*)

@leah06, thanks for your advice as well. It's not so much that I'm embarrassed, because they are strangers and calling someone Master isn't illegal. But I just want to make myself as presentable as possible (I'm just as concerned with showing I am educated, not poor and will not be a burden on their state, things that will make them be like "yeah, she won't ruin our country, let her in"). Also, Sweden is a particularly culturally egalitarian-focused state. Like, had a conscious cultural shift in the 60s or 70s to not use honorifics, Mr. or Mrs. Last Name, etc and call people by their first names. So it makes me nervous to divulge that part of our relationship because we don't know if it will affect their perception/decision.

@ pervertedpages hi here is my advice for what is worth i received my visa about 2 months ago and will be flying out on the 9th to Western Australia what we did we said that we lost communications but have found each other again as we have been friends since we were chldren the visa we went for was a subclass 676e which gave me 12 months to stay with Master when the visa runs out what Master are hoping to do is to go away for a holiday to another country and apply back for another visa as i wish to stay with my Master perm and not temp so the visa that we will be applying for is called a de-facto visa which means when i have been with my Master for over a year i could apply to the Australian Government to be a perm resident which also covers me if Master and i ever got married in the future i hope that this helps you a little

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pervertedpages

@bluefarie, thank you for your words of support. i secretly already knew that you and your Master were going through the same situation as us (though didn't know that we were going through the relocation part at the same time)... Not because I'm a creepy stalker but because months ago my Master said "hey slave guess what happened today, i talked to this guy in chat who ALSO met the love of his life in person this summer and realized it was meant to be!" And I felt we shared a connection, even if we were strangers. (Ok so I'm a little creepy, lol... *shuffles feet awkwardly*)

@leah06, thanks for your advice as well. It's not so much that I'm embarrassed, because they are strangers and calling someone Master isn't illegal. But I just want to make myself as presentable as possible (I'm just as concerned with showing I am educated, not poor and will not be a burden on their state, things that will make them be like "yeah, she won't ruin our country, let her in"). Also, Sweden is a particularly culturally egalitarian-focused state. Like, had a conscious cultural shift in the 60s or 70s to not use honorifics, Mr. or Mrs. Last Name, etc and call people by their first names. So it makes me nervous to divulge that part of our relationship because we don't know if it will affect their perception/decision.

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Hum..
Personally I live in a neighboring country (Norway)..
I'm afraid I don't know all that much details about swedish immigration or culture.. although it's similar to the norwegian one, it's not identical.
As for your chances of being accepted into the country I'd say it's rather good based on the fact that Sweden have a larger immigrant portion of it's population then any but one other european country.
Don't know exactly what kind of immigrants prevails though, if it's refugees, or economic immigrants or something else..
At any rate they're known as the most immigrant friendly of all the nordic countries although they have started to increase their restrictions on immigration (one single village/city in Sweden accepted more refugees then the whole of Canada and the USA at once one year not to long ago, ended up with the major delivering a speech in the UN urging other countries to take responsibility)
As for how your Master/Slave relationship would look to them..
Well, I honestly don't know..
Although I guess it'll help if you talk to someone that's grown up in one of the swedish cities as they tend to be more open-minded in that area then some people in the countryside (there's still rural areas in Sweden where christian values dominate)
I might be wrong, but I think that urban sweds tend to be open minded about sexual matters.. but I guess your master knows more about that then I do..
As for the Mr bit and so one, they're likely not to mind that since you're not a swedish national, basically they know that the english speaking world use those titles just as well as us Norwegians do and I have a hard time imagining that they'd use that against you.
However, I have the impression that the feminist movements have had more momentum in Sweden then in Norway, particularly the bits of it that borders on extremism, and at any rate they do have their own political party..
So while men that beat their wife/girlfriend in Sweden get jail time and nothing more an violent Norwegian man would go to a shrink to figure out why he's doing it. And so one..
Still, what do I know.. I'm no swed..
Hum..
Some advises..
If you do have to reveal that you live a bdsm life I'd try to tone down things like 24/7 life or dominance/submission and just try to talk about it as sex with some extra spice.. I think they'd probably find that easier to swallow..
Perhaps you could talk about it as role play, a lot of "vanilla" people use some kind of role play to spice up their sex life after all..
If you have to enter specifics (I hope you don't) remember to mention ssc, safe, sane and consensual.
At any rate, answer truthfully at what you're ask, but don't give more information then needed.
The fact that you're from a western country will probably count in your advantage, atlas subconscious level (I'm afraid a lot of us europeans are still rather racists, but that'll hopefully change when more people get to know more immigrants)
Remember this is all my impression of Sweden, and that don't need to be accurate at all.
At any rate don't worry to much, it'll probably turn out allright.
Good luck :)
I hope this was more help then harm..
Losalt

I am so thankful I have dual citizenship, so it wasn't an issue for me. It will be an issue if we go back to NA, though, since my girl doesn't have citizenship there, and we'll have to go through the whole landed emmigrant route despite being married (to each other).

In terms of the comments about how you met. Archeon hit the nail directly. Social; networking sites are becoming more acceptable as ways of meeting. There's no need to specify which site. And in terms of communication - set up Skype (if you haven't already) and state that was your primary communications method. After all, a free video phone is a heck of a lot more 'romance friendly' than emails or the ordinary telephone.

Having made the move overseas, all I can say is, keep plugging away at the bureaucracy, try not to ruffle civil servant sensibilities too greatly (they really prefer the answers to fit within their tickie boxes, so tell the story in words that fit those tickie boxes) and all the best of luck to you both.

Though we're looking at moving to Sweden, I don't have useful advice on that, because as a European citizen and the partner of a Dane I can just walk in. But I wish you well.

I too have gathered that the boondocks of Sweden are a lot less liberal minded than the cities, though this is common in a lot of countries. (But not, for some reason , in the Yorkshire valley where I used to live: when we were looking at the place for the first time I observed that we would fit in just fine because the oldest inhabitants were weirder than us, and even when we were living as an out poly foursome, the local opinion was that we "weren't doing anyone any harm".) Thir has warned me that we might have to be discreet about things like poly and BDSM in our lifestyle.

Just my two cents:

Be cautious on comparing your situation to any one else's situation. Everyone is different. No two situations are the same. Though "general advice" might SOUND nice, it really is quite pointless. Even if Person A is coming from Country A & Person B is coming from Country B, and they speak with C & D who did the exact same thing 3 years ago, the conditions of visas, the quantity of available visas, the history of the relationship, the evidence of the relationship, and the person in the gov't doing the check are all factors that most likely will be different... as will the time & place in space (i.e. the year), etc. My point is: each & every situation is different.

If you are THAT concerned, and you are putting all of your eggs in the basket, and there is no hope of anything but this ONE & ONLY visa, I would suggest seeking out professional, legal advice of someone in the country you are attempting to enter. Why? Because they know best how to navigate the system there, and what you need. In EVERY, and I literally mean EVERY system, there are ways to "better your odds"-- either different ways to fill out the paperwork, things to incl. with the paperwork (extra copies of pictures, more verification of x or y or z, etc) and a legal professional in that country that does that sort of work on a day-to-day basis would have that knowledge.

I can already tell you-- people who THINK they know about visas, and have "ideas" about how they are going to navigate the visa system & change from this visa to that visa, or "game the system" & get in & out on this one & that one... will be sorely disappointed. In the US in particular, and in many other countries, the system is sloooow... and frowns on such "visa hopping." Also, what you THINK you know may not be the actual truth... no matter HOW much you read up on things. Trust me: the law is a confusing mess--esp. when it comes to immigration.

"Oh but delia, I don't have that kind of money to get an attorney or even get legal advice!" But then... is this really the time for you to be moving across the universe? This sort of move is HUGE & obviously shouldn't be taken lightly... but if it's THAT important to you, you should game your odds in ANY way possible. If that means waiting an extra 6 months so you can raise money to hire a great lawyer to even look over your paperwork, then do it. Love will wait--good legal advice is critical.

You can talk to whoever you want--people on this board, people on any other internet board, people in your life, people in support groups, your family, your friends, whoever... but the bottom line is this: the best people to seek advice from are those who know the laws.

as even though the issue is only related as in immigration issue, i have a cousin whose wife is here (USA) from the Philippines. Despite the fact that they are married and they have a baby, she has worked legally every day of her life in this country, she is facing deportation. They will make her leave her baby here too. They have spent already over 20,000.00 in legal fee's already fighting this out. It was not a bdsm issue at all, I just wanted to echo what Delia said as being good advice. One screw up in the wrong direction and she is no longer viewed as the woman who has never committed a crime here, always worked and paid taxes here. Its worth a few hundred to avoid that and all the stress and fear and expense that goes with mistakes.

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Originally Posted by 13'sbadkitty

as even though the issue is only related as in immigration issue, i have a cousin whose wife is here (USA) from the Philippines. Despite the fact that they are married and they have a baby, she has worked legally every day of her life in this country, she is facing deportation. They will make her leave her baby here too. They have spent already over 20,000.00 in legal fee's already fighting this out. It was not a bdsm issue at all, I just wanted to echo what Delia said as being good advice. One screw up in the wrong direction and she is no longer viewed as the woman who has never committed a crime here, always worked and paid taxes here. Its worth a few hundred to avoid that and all the stress and fear and expense that goes with mistakes.

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Is this deportation a result of a mistake on her visa? If not then an attorney when getting the visa would probably have made no difference.

In terms of my individual situation, and thus is my opinion and should not be taken as advise by any other; when filing for my visa to move to America I looked over what needed to be done, with a lot of help off a forum containing guides and lots of wonderful people who have all been through the same situation, and concluded a lawyer at this point was not necessary. If a mistake is made on this visa (K-1, AOS might be a different matter), then they simply tell you, let you correct it and move on. It is a lot of form filling and hoop jumping, however nothing beyond being able to do yourself assuming you can fill a form out and follow some instructions. Weather this is the same for other countries, and other visa's I cannot say.

the one thing that is true, is that it takes a blood long time, and is a whole lot of beaurocracy to sit through. However if your relationship cannot survive a few months apart, with the rest of your life ahead of you, perhaps as delia said, it is not the right time for you to move to the other side of the world.

Regards,

Arch

no, she was here legally at first on a work visa. She applied for whatever the right type of marriage would change it to with her first husband. The mistake was in the transition and unfortunately for her her ex is lets say hostile and has turned out to have said some damaging things when my cousin and her tried to make her a citizen through his marriage to her. She didn't dot an i somewhere and his statement against her was only after they had decided to look into her further. This has been going on for years and his statement was made less than 6 months ago, for relevance sake. I don't want to scare someone out of coming here, just as i have seen it go badly i wanted to offer that it can be more expensive than not seeing a lawyer to begin with.

In response to badkitty's cousin's wife's situation: dang. I have a lot of Filipino relatives who got here through dubious means, lots more who got here through perfectly legit means, but no one I've ever known has had to go through something like that, and my heart goes out to them.

And, fuck yeah it takes a long time. I already was going to head over on a work visa and then lost the job, so that's 5 months down the drain, with another 6 - 8 ONCE we get the paperwork started (early next week, hopefully!). It's all such a heartache, but what's 8 months to the rest of my life? I appreciate everyone's advice, though of course I was particularly curious about people who are experienced with power-exchange/transferal relationships who have immigrated, just because it's such a specific situation that it's easy to feel "isolated" about it, and will not let strangers' internet advice ruin my life. I don't got much, a good head on my shoulders is about it. If your only advice is not to listen to advice on forums, I'll take that with as much salt as all the other thoughtful posts. Thank you kindly to you all.

I think perhaps that Meester Andrew is right here I'm afraid..
I have relatives that did something like that..
As for the advise about being careful with the using forum posts as advice thingy..
It's probably true too.
At least I know that my own experience with all of these matters is.. limited..