New York Times Political Cartoon

[Thorne]

It's interesting to me how so many supposedly enlightened people can so easily equate chimps with race. I grew up during the racial problems of the 60's and 70's and I would never have put those two together if it hadn't been for all the uproar.

Are we then to assume that all those Tarzan movies with chimpanzees running around all over the place contain hidden racial slanders? Is Planet of the Apes perhaps a warning against allowing the "lesser" races to have too much power? Should we ban the word "chimp" from our language because some people see it as a racial slur? Maybe we should condemn the cartoonist to unending torment, as the Muslims did to the bomb-in-the-turban cartoonist?

Come on people! It's a freaking cartoon! It's not funny, and it's not even well drawn, but it's no worse than some of the bashing I've seen here, against both Bush and Obama. If you choose to see a racial slur in there, fine. Deal with it. But don't automatically assume that everyone does, or that you know what the artist (I use the term loosely) was trying to say.

[Belgarold]

No one said EVERYBODY saw the cartoon as racist, but it is and had been a common slur to equate blacks with monkeys and chimps and other simians. And for an editor not to see that either means he was totally and ridiculously out of touch or he KNEW that it would be misconstrued that way and did not care.

And besides the racial overtones it could be seen as inciting violence against the president or against other government officials. ANd I am constantly amazed at the capacity for hypocrisy by conservatives and Republicans (I am listening now to Republican Congressman, who wrote the book on earmarks and pork, talking about Obama's Stim bill).

Just one incident here, but there were many others: The Dixie Chicks were vilified and sent DEATH threats by idiots when they had simply stated they were embarassed to be from the same state as Bush. And you would have thought they killed someone.

And now this awful cartoon is seen as not a big deal.

[AdrianaAurora]

This cartoon is not subtle in it's depiction of the President being assassinated and someone else having to write the next Stimulus. Sean Delonas (a famed cartoonist) and the folks at the NY Post knew this before publishing it.

The cartoon is tying three things together (a real dying economy, a real monkey that ran amok in Connecticut the other day, and the racist stereotype of animalistic tendencies in blacks) to anticipate a recession-driven increase in crime and the need for some good old right-wing law-and-order. Meaning, two white cops. Of course, this would have nothing to do with Eric Holder taking over the Justice Department and, among other things, bringing a critical eye to the prison-industrial complex, or more simply, the incarceration of black males for minor drug offenses. ...Economy in meltdown - perpetrated by white guys on Wall Street? Play the fear card.

For some strange and interesting reason, many white people I've talked to will defend the cartoon as if they drew it. They keep saying the same thing, "I don't see what all the fuss is about." After all aggressive, reckless, racially insensitive nature of the chimp cartoon is just business as usual at the Post.

The idea of course is to get the tongues furiously wagging, get enraged emails, letters and phone calls pouring in, and then put forth the predictable defense calling this and other inflammatory cartoons a parody, a free speech right, and harmless spoofery.

The furor might have drawn little more than a public yawn and shrug except for two small points. One is the long, sordid and savage history of racist stereotyping of African-Americans. A few grotesque book titles from a century ago, such as The Negro a Beast, The Negro, a Menace to American Civilization, and the Clansman depicted blacks as apes, monkeys, bestial, and animal like. The image stuck in books, magazines, journals, and deeply colored the thinking of many Americans of that day.

It's true that was a long time ago, and as Mr. Allan intimated in his lame defense of the Post cartoon, no sober person could seriously believe that anyone would liken the president or for that matter any black to a chimp. Unfortunately, a lot still do - including a lot of GOP members, they even released the album containing such "hits" as Obama the 'Magic Negro', thus this cartoon is just a natural continuation.

Second Sean Delonas could so casually and easily depict Obama as a monkey because that image didn't die a century, half century, decade, or even a year ago. In fact, exactly a year ago, Penn State researchers conducted six separate studies and found that many Americans still link blacks with apes and monkeys. Many of them were young, and had absolutely no knowledge of the vicious stereotyping of blacks of years past. Their findings with the provocative title "Not Yet Human: Implicit Knowledge, Historical Dehumanization and Contemporary Consequences," in the February 2008 issue of Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, was published by the American Psychological Association.

The researchers found that participants, and that included even those with no stated prejudices or knowledge of the historical images, were quicker to associate blacks with apes than they were to associate whites with apes.

This was not simply a dry academic exercise. The animal association and blacks has had devastating real life consequences. For example, in hundreds of news stories from 1979 to 1999 the Philadelphia Inquirer was much more likely to describe African Americans than Whites convicted of capital crimes with ape-relevant language, such as "barbaric," "beast," "brute," "savage" and "wild." And jurors in criminal cases were far more likely to judge blacks more harshly than whites, and regard them and their crimes as savage, bestial, and heinous, and slap them with tougher sentences than whites.

The Post cartoon was the complete package. It depicted violence, death, brutality, incitement, and animal like imagery. The topper was the not so subtle inference that the target of the chimp depiction and more was an African-American male, namely President Obama.

In the page preceding a New York Post cartoon that depicts drafters of the stimulus legislation as a gun-downed chimpanzee, the paper published a large photo of Barack Obama signing that very piece of legislation. The succession of the story and cartoon creates a rather jarring visualization.

Criticizing policy, even making fun of the President is one thing. But we mustn't trivialize this issue and have to resist the propaganda that "it is just a cartoon". There's simply too much money in racial trash talk (and cartooning), and too much silence from the higher ups that send a tacit signal condoning it. I am bewildered that anyone would think that this is okay.

[Belgarold]

Well-researched and well-presented post AdrianaAurora, thank you for that.

:-)

[Master Eq]

I have to say, even though I don't agree with everything you said, that has to be the best written response to my question. Thank you very much for your opinion and all of the facts you brought to the table AdrianaAurora.

[Thorne]

I agree with Belgarold and Master Eq. Well done, AdrianaAurora. That told me more than I ever suspected about the situation. It also tells me that my capacity for over-estimating the average American has not diminished. I seem to give people far more credit than they deserve.

I apologize if my comments offended anyone. I did not intend to defend the cartoon, or the cartoonist. I only wanted to point out that it's doubtful there would have been any real problem if persons in positions of authority didn't make such a fuss. Maybe I'm wrong.

For the record, I did not find the cartoon funny, but I also didn't see any hidden racial messages. Others did, I understand that. Put it down to my own naivete.

I guess this is why I don't get along with people.

[Master Eq]

No Thorne, your comments were well put, and I think we are all mature enough to take what one says as their opinion. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions. I'm glad to have found a place where I can express my thoughts and get some positive feedback. Thanks again.

Master Eq

[DuncanONeil]

There have been some internet bullies that have made the Bush facial expressions equate to chimps but never the "media" if that can actually be defined. If I'm wrong about that please show me a link or a quote from a main-stream media source please.

"For several years now, George Bush has been portrayed as a big eared, close-set eyed chimp. Of course some folk were outraged, most however, were amused.

But when an artist uses the headlines (Run-amok Chimp Gunned Down By Police,) to produce a cartoon about the stimulus plan, he is labeled a racist assassination monger."
(http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.js...81474977604935)

[DuncanONeil]

The "chimp" part isnt the problem. When I first saw it, the incredulity at what I was seeing caused a small gasp. It was depicting "cops shooting just another n*****", suggesting Obama would be that easy to get rid off. To do so when there have already been arrests of not too bright individuals who owned guns and plotted to kill the President...

They knew what they were doing. Political satyr is one thing, and Obama shouldnt be given a special exemption from it, but this wasnt it. This wasnt a critical commentary, at best it was a disgusting and hypocritical abuse of the freedom of speech.

You do realize that a chimp was actually shot, do you not?

[DuncanONeil]

No one said EVERYBODY saw the cartoon as racist, but it is and had been a common slur to equate blacks with monkeys and chimps and other simians. And for an editor not to see that either means he was totally and ridiculously out of touch or he KNEW that it would be misconstrued that way and did not care.

And besides the racial overtones it could be seen as inciting violence against the president or against other government officials. ANd I am constantly amazed at the capacity for hypocrisy by conservatives and Republicans (I am listening now to Republican Congressman, who wrote the book on earmarks and pork, talking about Obama's Stim bill).

Just one incident here, but there were many others: The Dixie Chicks were vilified and sent DEATH threats by idiots when they had simply stated they were embarassed to be from the same state as Bush. And you would have thought they killed someone.

And now this awful cartoon is seen as not a big deal.

"it is and had been a common slur to equate blacks with monkeys and chimps and other simians." Really!? Not in my life!

[DuncanONeil]

Bullshit! The economy is not dying! Nor is it racist! It is merely political for heavens sake!

[DuncanONeil]

"no sober person could seriously believe that anyone would liken the president or for that matter any black to a chimp. Unfortunately, a lot still do - including a lot of GOP members, they even released the album containing such "hits" as Obama the 'Magic Negro', thus this cartoon is just a natural continuation. "

This is apocryphal, without support! Further the GOP released no such album or song!

[mkemse]

"no sober person could seriously believe that anyone would liken the president or for that matter any black to a chimp. Unfortunately, a lot still do - including a lot of GOP members, they even released the album containing such "hits" as Obama the 'Magic Negro', thus this cartoon is just a natural continuation. "

This is apocryphal, without support! Further the GOP released no such album or song!

And my guess is the longer the GOP does stuff like this, the longer it will take them to regain power in either Congress or the White House
And Micheal Steele, the new RNC National Chairmen siad just last week, that the GOP needs to Change or Adjust it's Platform to be more Current and updated or the GOP will continue to loose elections
And how "ironic" is it, and NO slight is meant bythis that he is chosen after Obama is Inuagrated, and Stelle happens to be Black, first time ever for the RNC just likw the forst time eer for Presdient
To many old time GOPers stil in office who will neevr change their stand on issues

[denuseri]

And my guess is the longer the GOP does stuff like this, the longer it will take them to regain power in either Congress or the White House

Blinks?? what on earth does the GOP have to do with this cartoon? Or the video mentioned earlier for that matter?

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

Blinks?? what on earth does the GOP have to do with this cartoon? Or the video mentioned earlier for that matter?

He's referring to Chip Saltzman while he was a candidate for RNC chairmanship distributing a CD to other Republicans as a Christmas gift with the song "Barack the Magic Negro" on it.

Cite: http://www.wikio.com/video/722831

[moosehunter]

I believe the stimulus bill was mostly written by Nancy Pekosi as Speaker of the House. So perhaps this cartoon was sexist and in bad taste. My question is how can President Obama tell Governors to spend the money wisely and not wastefully when the Congressional Buget Office considers it to be poor bill.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

"For several years now, George Bush has been portrayed as a big eared, close-set eyed chimp. Of course some folk were outraged, most however, were amused.

But when an artist uses the headlines (Run-amok Chimp Gunned Down By Police,) to produce a cartoon about the stimulus plan, he is labeled a racist assassination monger."
(http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.js...81474977604935)

As I said, internet bullies and sophomoric humor sites made the Bush = chimp pictures but to the best of my ability to locate through Google or archive searches, never by any main stream media.

The political cartoon that the Post published was in my opinion a very deliberate attempt to stir up the exact thing we're seeing here, lots and lots of discussion. The Post needs exposure very badly being the much smaller NY paper during a very difficult time for newspapers in general to stay afloat.

[mkemse]

I believe the stimulus bill was mostly written by Nancy Pekosi as Speaker of the House. So perhaps this cartoon was sexist and in bad taste. My question is how can President Obama tell Governors to spend the money wisely and not wastefully when the Congressional Buget Office considers it to be poor bill.

Some epole like the bill others don't
They had s Poll On Monday night and only 56% of those Polled liked the Bill, aftr hisspeach last night the repolled thismoring and the plans poll went up to an 85% approval base on what peole said ws they now know what is going to happen woth the money, thingsare much clearer

The reality is not everyone wil ike it, but in anything in life you will never ever please everyone all the time
And one of the 3 Republicans who supported the Bill said "No I do ont like it, but SOMETHING, ANYTHING right now is better then NOTHING at all

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

I believe the stimulus bill was mostly written by Nancy Pekosi as Speaker of the House. So perhaps this cartoon was sexist and in bad taste. My question is how can President Obama tell Governors to spend the money wisely and not wastefully when the Congressional Buget Office considers it to be poor bill.

The bill was written by staffers based on a compromise between the Senate and House versions.

The CBO did not say it was a bad bill. They said that the stimulus bill designed to have short -term impact would indeed have short-term impact in boosting the economy. What has been twisted by some commentators and politicians to try and make this a negative was a single sentence in the letter to Judd Gregg that said that by 2019 the impact of the additional debt would be to reduce the baseline expected GPD to be reduced by .1% to .3%. According to the Heritage Foundation (a very conservative think tank) based on CBO estimate s the worst case would be that by 2019, GPD would be growing at 2.2% annually instead of the expected 2.5%.

If the Obama administration makes good on even part of their budgetary promises these numbers will change substantially as there would not be the amount of debt calculated by the CBO. Therefore that debt would not squeeze out private investment thereby positively changing the impact on GDP in the out years.

Cite: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9619/Gregg.pdf

[mkemse]

Blinks?? what on earth does the GOP have to do with this cartoon? Or the video mentioned earlier for that matter?

Someone mentioned earlier in THIS thread both the videos that the GOP ran on a site, my reply wasto that comment made

[mkemse]

Blinks?? what on earth does the GOP have to do with this cartoon? Or the video mentioned earlier for that matter?

no sober person could seriously believe that anyone would liken the president or for that matter any black to a chimp. Unfortunately, a lot still do - including a lot of GOP members, they even released the album containing such "hits" as Obama the 'Magic Negro', thus this cartoon is just a natural continuation. "

This is apocryphal, without support! Further the GOP released no such album or song!

my post was a rply to this post above by DuncanOneil if you look up highier on this thread, thi page, i replied to his cmments it is 5-6 posts up from ths ne toward the top or midleo f this page

[denuseri]

I have read the whole thread mkemse thanks, I just didnt realize anyone from the gop itself had instigated such a thing in the name of the party or any other offical capacity, and I obviously found the idea that someone would to be kinda silly, it sounded more to me like somthing Rush or one of his pundents would have started.

That being said based on the context of the preceding posts Duncan was answering a post from another member I was asking for more inromation before making my own opinion.

After further reaserch I see the video in question “Barack the Magic Negro” by conservative satirist Paul Shanklin who created it was popularized to some extent by Rush and Saltsman later distributed it to his friends as a Christmass Greeting of all things and the GOP itself as a whole actually had no part in it and shouldnt be villified as such.

Now as for Shanklin, Rush and Saltsman... I only can say shame on all three of them for propogating such racist bull%$#@. They are no better than the people at the Post. But hey they are part of the same media beast that promotes discontent and divsion as a means of lining thier own pockets to the expense of actually following any sense of journalist virtue ironic only if such a thing ever actually existed in any way other than name only.

[Belgarold]

"it is and had been a common slur to equate blacks with monkeys and chimps and other simians." Really!? Not in my life!

Your ignorance of the slur does not mean it hasn't been VERY prevalent. And the "Barack the Magic Negro" incident is NOT apocryphal, it happened. And it cited in this very thread.

And a simple google search found this as the first listing. I could cite more if you would like.
http://www.racialslurs.com/search?q=monkeys&sort=slur

[Belgarold]

And as a follow-on. The racist overtones of the cartoon are disturbing enough, but not a one of the people who have supported this cartoon, talked about the violence it incites.

It condones, in a way, the assassination of political figures.

The cartoon is and was and always will be disgusting.

[mkemse]

I have read the whole thread mkemse thanks, I just didnt realize anyone from the gop itself had instigated such a thing in the name of the party or any other offical capacity, and I obviously found the idea that someone would to be kinda silly, it sounded more to me like somthing Rush or one of his pundents would have started.

That being said based on the context of the preceding posts Duncan was answering a post from another member I was asking for more inromation before making my own opinion.

After further reaserch I see the video in question “Barack the Magic Negro” by conservative satirist Paul Shanklin who created it was popularized to some extent by Rush and Saltsman later distributed it to his friends as a Christmass Greeting of all things and the GOP itself as a whole actually had no part in it and shouldnt be villified as such.

Now as for Shanklin, Rush and Saltsman... I only can say shame on all three of them for propogating such racist bull%$#@. They are no better than the people at the Post. But hey they are part of the same media beast that promotes discontent and divsion as a means of lining thier own pockets to the expense of actually following any sense of journalist virtue ironic only if such a thing ever actually existed in any way other than name only.

OK all i was doing was replyin to his thread, which was question you osted of me in trhis thread thatsss all

[Thorne]

And as a follow-on. The racist overtones of the cartoon are disturbing enough, but not a one of the people who have supported this cartoon, talked about the violence it incites.

It condones, in a way, the assassination of political figures.

The cartoon is and was and always will be disgusting.

Again, I don't see it! Except for the fact that it references the actual occurrence of a chimp having to be shot to protect a human, I just can't see how this promotes violence or the assassination of anyone! Perhaps it says more about the state of mind of those readers who do see such things than about the cartoonist himself. Or perhaps it says more about my state of mind that I don't see it, until it's thrust in my face by the strident voices of those who are more interested in getting their faces on the news than in actually instigating any meaningful dialog. (Not directed at those here, btw. So far all the statements I've read here seem well reasoned and honest. I'm referring more to the likes of Rev. Al Sharpton, and his ilk.)

I'm reminded of a little piece written by Isaac Asimov as an introduction to one of his stories. He was constantly being shown all kinds of treatises on his works and what he was trying to say and the hidden meanings in his works. He said, flat out, that there were no hidden meanings, no secret messages, no grand schemes. He was simply writing stories.

Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to assume the same of the cartoonist: he wasn't inciting assassinations, or promoting violence. He was simply drawing a cartoon, drawing attention to two unrelated news topics. Reading anything else into it is simply guesswork.

[mkemse]

And as a follow-on. The racist overtones of the cartoon are disturbing enough, but not a one of the people who have supported this cartoon, talked about the violence it incites.

It condones, in a way, the assassination of political figures.

The cartoon is and was and always will be disgusting.

I agree it simpy was not needed

[Belgarold]

Thorne,

I know you are being honest about not seeing it, your posts have always been respectful disagreement and not inflammatory. And I know sometimes my posts can seem strident. I don't intend that.

Two points: The getting their face in the news, opportunistic posturing cuts both ways. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the Fox crew, as well as the Editor of the Post, have downplayed this issue and inflated others to ridiculous status.

And second, there are those of us that DO see it and are disturbed by the implications. ANd my worry are the nutjobs out there. For example, the madman that shot up the Unitarian church to kill Liberal Leaders.

If we see it there is some nutjob out there that will see it, and my fear is him acting upon it. And I think if I say or do something that can be misconstrued, whether I mean it or not. I WILL feel obligated to apologize for that. I think a LOT of racism and violence is subconscious these days.

Just my thought on the issue. I truly believe there are people out there waiting for something to justify their insanity to the point of acting on it. And Limbaugh, The Post and any of Murdoch's holdings, have straddled the line in inciting these dangerous folk.

[Thorne]

Thorne,

I know you are being honest about not seeing it, your posts have always been respectful disagreement and not inflammatory. And I know sometimes my posts can seem strident. I don't intend that.

I understand that, and my comment about "strident" voices was not aimed at anyone here at all.

Two points: The getting their face in the news, opportunistic posturing cuts both ways. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the Fox crew, as well as the Editor of the Post, have downplayed this issue and inflated others to ridiculous status.

I agree with you completely, here. The strident conservatives are no less guilty of this than strident liberals. Both sides are pulling at the same rope in a never ending tug of war, and they all wind up with mud on their faces.

And second, there are those of us that DO see it and are disturbed by the implications. ANd my worry are the nutjobs out there. For example, the madman that shot up the Unitarian church to kill Liberal Leaders.

If we see it there is some nutjob out there that will see it, and my fear is him acting upon it. And I think if I say or do something that can be misconstrued, whether I mean it or not. I WILL feel obligated to apologize for that. I think a LOT of racism and violence is subconscious these days.

I understand your concerns, and the concerns of others here. I think one of my failings is that I don't always see the seamier sides of these issues. I always want to believe that most people tend to think clearly and logically, not letting themselves be swayed by inane rhetoric. Naive, as I've noted before.

Just my thought on the issue. I truly believe there are people out there waiting for something to justify their insanity to the point of acting on it. And Limbaugh, The Post and any of Murdoch's holdings, have straddled the line in inciting these dangerous folk.

That's what they do. How they make their livings. The really sad thing is that there are, apparently, so many who are willing to let these people do their thinking for them. I can never understand how someone could be proud to be called a "dittohead!"

[Belgarold]

Just wanted to say Thorne, sorry for the confusion. I was just recognizing my own ability to get a little strident now and then, not to imply that I felt that you were directing your comments at me. And I agree with all you said. I would like to think that most people are thinking rationally too, but fear it is not always the case.

I apreciate your comments :-)