Contracts

[FrgnSwtc]

Disclaimer: If by any chance this topic already exists, forgive me, I was unable to find it

I was wondering what were the key issues that should be outlined in a M/s - 24/7 contract. Aside of the listings of "Hell no, we're not going there" and "I won't live in peace if this itch isn't scratched".
The clear statement of reasons or situations that may arise that would break the contract, safe words for "Stop" and "I'm out the door", financial issues, etc...

If any of you could help me out it'll be greatly appreciated.

btw, the wiki outline and the Iron Rose were already drained of info. thanks!

[_ID_]

IMO if you need a contract, you aren't communicating, and the relationship is going to fail.

With that in mind. Think about how life will intrude. What will you add into the contract when a medical situation precludes the 24/7 M/s dynamic? What will you add to the contract should the Master no longer be able to speak, or move, what about if the submissive can no longer stand in order to do the dishes, or what if the sub is unable to (insert item you have as a requirement). So on and so forth.

A contract between a Master and their slave is a nice gesture of devotion to each other, but it is baseless, and unenforceable. At best it is a tool for romance and courtship.

[flying66]

try to have a sit down time once a week where you get to talk frankly, with no repercussions, about you situation, where you can share your thoughts with each other on the same level without the whole "M/s" thing there.

Some people like having the 'contract' and I think that the contact can be an evolving thing and during those sit-down talks is when you can negotiate/re-negotiate aspects of the contract.

[Guera]

the most useful contracts I have heard about, have been short term "lets try this out" kind of things. Almost like a lease agreement between a landlord and a tenant.

[denuseri]

Personally I would laugh in the face of the prospective dominant that presented me with such a request. Imho if one is so insecure that one needs such a contrivance one wont ever get me into one's collar to begin with anyway, let alone hold me there.

But thats just me.

If a contract one must have, then by all means feel free to have one.

Just make sure you read all the fine print, and that every thing in the contract is safe, sane, and mutually consensual prior, cuase odds are the prospective dominant that wants you to sign one, is also going to try and use it against you 9 times out of 10 sometime in the future bywaving it in your face when you want to refuse to do somthing.

So word to the wise....make sure there is a cluase that lets you negotieate and or say NO at anytime, contract or no contract.

I rumaged around for a little bit on the back shelves and found some links about what others have said or presented examples of about them before that one may or may not find helpful.

Good Luck.

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...lave+contracts

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...lave+contracts

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...lave+contracts

[_ID_]

Just make sure you read all the fine print, and that every thing in the contract is safe, sane, and mutually consensual prior, cuase odds are the prospective dominant that wants you to sign one, is also going to try and use it against you 9 times out of 10 sometime in the future bywaving it in your face when you want to refuse to do somthing.

So word to the wise....make sure there is a cluase that lets you negotieate and or say NO at anytime, contract or no contract.

This part of denuseri's post is what I was referring to when I said that BDSM contracts for an M/s dynamic are baseless and unenforceable. There is no legal basis that would allow a contract to legally bind someone to one of these contracts. To do so would condone slavery, and there isn't a civilized country on the planet that does that anymore.

[bluefarie]

A contract, in and of itself is not a bad thing, in my opinion. I think it can be a very powerful tool if presented properly, but as everyone has said previously, it is not a legally binding document. It can serve to be a reminder of what is expected of the slave and Master throughout the relationship and i think that is a good thing. Again, this may need to be negotiated through out the relationship if things change, so having a review period for said contract may be a good idea to include.

For me, the contract also serves to remind me of my place in Master's life, not that i would forget, but all of the little things help especially with day to day and the mundane wears you down.

The one that i found that i liked the best was on www.seekers.org

http://www.seekers.org.uk/sub.htm

look on there under sample slave contract. i hope you find this helpful, but it outlines most of the basics and if there are children, you will need to put in a clause about that. Good luck and happy writing!

bluefarie, happily owned and engaged to Master Archeon

[FrgnSwtc]

Thank you all for your posts.

Maybe I didn't explain myself thoroughly at the beginning of the thread. I'm just curious about the issue, not that I plan to base anything on a contract or rely on it if legally binding. I'm aware that they're not.

I ran into a sample one and I was wondering if it was a regular practice... Just nerdiness at work.

Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to post here.

FS

[denuseri]

Just to be clear:

I didn't mean to imply that anything was legally binding, just that it would be very easily used to exert pressure against the sub, making one feel as if they had to comply with something weather they wished to or not, just becuase they signed a piece of paper.

[_ID_]

Just to be clear:

I didn't mean to imply that anything was legally binding, just that it would be very easily used to exert pressure against the sub, making one feel as if they had to comply with something weather they wished to or not, just becuase they signed a piece of paper.

If it were it ceases to be consensual. At that point the relationship is no longer healthy, and should be terminated.

[FrgnSwtc]

Just to be clear:

I didn't mean to imply that anything was legally binding, just that it would be very easily used to exert pressure against the sub, making one feel as if they had to comply with something weather they wished to or not, just becuase they signed a piece of paper.

You're absolutely right, after reading a whole bunch of micromanaging laundry lists, it just gave me the impression to be more of a burden on the sub than anything else.
It does bring forth a few aspects that should be crystal clear before considering a 24/7 situation though, but nothing that good relationship communication excludes to begin with.

However, in that capacity I agree with bluefarie, having some guidelines to start is not a bad thing per se. Considering both parties and the need to remind (and not enforce) them both of broad subjects, that get worn down by day to day life. Maybe is more a question of titles and "contract" should be approached with a less specific undertone.

[Guera]

The idea of contracts is too closely related to the social-psyche-family counseling idea about warring couples having to sign a contract about minimum standards of behavior, or unruly teenagers having to sign a contract that they would comply with their parents. To me, the idea of contracts is too manipulative. But, like I said, I think it could be handy for something very short term, like "I will let you live in my house, and I will provide abc, and you will do xyz, and we will talk in a few weeks/months".

[NightRave]

Also if anyone decides to do the whole contract thing they don't have to make it very detailed. It could just be a general outline of rules for both dom and sub etc...

Or for others they could make it VERY detailed if they wanted. Some folks might just like the thought of actually having a signed contract even if it doesn't actually mean anything.

[fetishdj]

If you do decide to use a contract (and there are good arguments for and against... personally, I think the best reason to have one is simply for the fantasy of 'having a contract' - basically putting into words that committment to each other) then that contract should be a personal and intimate document. Some see them as marriage vows, for example. After all, what is the traditional marriage oath to 'love, honour and obey' than a form of BDSM contract? So, I think it should be poetic, beautiful and indictative of the love, respect and committment between two (or more) people.

It should certainly contain all the hard and soft limits the sub has mentioned. It should also outline the duties and responsibilities of both parties. By this I mean that it is not only the slave who is bound by the contract - the Dom/me has responsibilities too. It may include a detailed list of duties alongside a list of punishments for breaking those (Slave must cook Master's breakfast every day at 8am unless given leave, failure to do this will mean kneeling blindfolded in the corner for 30 minutes) or it may be more vague than that (slave must cater for all Master's needs, failure will result in punishment). But basically, whatever the two of you decide to put into this document is what goes in there. There is no set format. It is an agreement between two people with no backing in law and only a minimal support from the lifestyle (no one is going to ostrachise you for breaking a contract... unless it is a really bad situation...)

Basically, I see it as a fun thing you do both to help define your relationship more formally and to live out that fantasy of 'being a contracted slave'.

[FrgnSwtc]

Thanks Fetish for taking the time to answer this thread.

As time goes by, my feelings on the issue have been evolving. I'm not on the verge of signing one (yet) but I do sense that much of the discomfort comes from the fact that "contract" is such a specific word and it entails a bureaucratic based interaction.

I see it more as starting point to bring up discussions that could be overlooked easily. More like a statement in writing of what are the duties and responsibilities of both (or more) parties involved.
Wouldn't I, as a sub, go out of my way and do anything to please my Master? Yes. Wouldn't He in return do everything in His power to keep His precious property safe and happy? Yes. It might seem obvious, but it isn't. Besides it's also very nice to see it written down... (or is that the hopeless romantic in me?)

In any case, I wouldn't scoff or disregard the idea. Personally I believe it has brought forth many things to be explored within myself that I wouldn't have addressed otherwise. Or better yet, Master would have seen them and then pointed them to me regardless, but I know He likes that my introspection gets me ready to wherever He wants me to go.

Once again, thank you all for replying to this thread.

Regards.