Organized Religion, Good or Bad?

[Aesop]

Just wanted to drop in my opinions here... It seems popular to bash organized religion nowadays, I've been noticing. I'm going to have to sound class-ist here for a moment, but I feel that organized religion is absolutely critical to a stable government. There will always be classes in society, and religion is the best way to keep control of the lower classes, which also tend to be more numerous.

It seems like kind of a harsh way of looking at things, but society is based on control. Religion is probably one of the best ways to maintain control, because it gives the ability to say 'you must do this or else' and not have to worry about reinforcing the threat with action. Regardless of whether or not any religion is logical or true, it is intrinsically necessary.

Take the Declaration of Independence for example. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Unalienable rights endowed by their Creator. God gives us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The French tried something similar in 1789, however they forgot something crucial. They left out God. And Napoleon had to restore order.

--Mali

I completely agree with your statement that religion is probably one of the best ways to maintain control of the populace. Do this or go to hell! is a great way to motivate people, yes. It's a (and I apologize for the language) fucking horrible thing to use religion for, but yes it's effective. I don't agree that it's critical to a stable government though. Here in the U.S. we have many different orginizations trying to save our souls and although the majority are Christian, there are large groups of other faiths that take part in the political process. There are also large groups of atheists and agnostics that have an impact. And of course the politically correct army keeping their fingers in the government pie and religion out of our schools. Even with all that going on our lives are as stable as one could expect in a state of an ongoing war. Also you choose to interpret Creator as God. All right. Which God? Jefferson doesn't say YWHW or Allah or even Jesus, just Creator and as Jefferson was himself dubious of organized religon I doubt he was advocating the use of it as a governing tool.

[Malicat]

I completely agree with your statement that religion is probably one of the best ways to maintain control of the populace. Do this or go to hell! is a great way to motivate people, yes. It's a (and I apologize for the language) fucking horrible thing to use religion for, but yes it's effective. I don't agree that it's critical to a stable government though. Here in the U.S. we have many different orginizations trying to save our souls and although the majority are Christian, there are large groups of other faiths that take part in the political process. There are also large groups of atheists and agnostics that have an impact. And of course the politically correct army keeping their fingers in the government pie and religion out of our schools. Even with all that going on our lives are as stable as one could expect in a state of an ongoing war. Also you choose to interpret Creator as God. All right. Which God? Jefferson doesn't say YWHW or Allah or even Jesus, just Creator and as Jefferson was himself dubious of organized religon I doubt he was advocating the use of it as a governing tool.

Hmmm, while faith takes place in the political process, I'm not sure the actual religion matters, provided it follows one particular tenent. "Don't be a dick, and you will go to heaven where your every desire will be fulfilled. Be a dick, and go to hell, where the worst thing possible will happen to you constantly." That's the attitude necessary for threats without followup. And let's face it, a majority of religions use that particular party line with just a lot of other stuff thrown in.

Oh, and I really don't choose to interpret creator as anything, honestly. I am not christian, but god is simply less letters to type. If such a being were to actually exist, I honestly don't think he (HA, yes, I used he instead of he or she, politically incorrect, here I come!) will really be so petty as to be pissed off because I used a different word for his name. And if I recall correctly, the majority of the signers of the Declaration were Deists. However, I'm not sure that means that they didn't understand the value of a population kept in control using religion. The Constitution and the laws put into place afterwards were actually based on Hobbes's political philosophies. And while Hobbes certainly wasn't of the most joyful souls, his theories have proven themselves to be sound when it comes to laws and government. Just because a man doesn't believe in something, doesn't mean that he can't believe in the power it holds over others.

[Aesop]

Just because a man doesn't believe in something, doesn't mean that he can't believe in the power it holds over others.

I couldn't agree more and that's why so many of us have a problem with organized religion. I seriously doubt God cares what my political affiliations are, but many organizations would have me believe otherwise and quite frankly if God wants me to vote for the religious right here in this country I'm not sure I want to go to that heaven.

[Malicat]

I couldn't agree more and that's why so many of us have a problem with organized religion. I seriously doubt God cares what my political affiliations are, but many organizations would have me believe otherwise and quite frankly if God wants me to vote for the religious right here in this country I'm not sure I want to go to that heaven.

Oh, I have to admit that if I'm wrong and Christianity is the 'one true way', I'm going to hell. Without a doubt. I work out at a Christian gym, mainly because there is a full service spa on site that will bill to my gym account, so I can get therapy massage when I need it, and not when I can afford it. I ended up purchasing a few extremly tight tank tops with the gym name on the front because... well, let's face it, they're christian shirts and they make me look kind of slutty. Yeah, definitely going to hell if they're right.

--Mali

[Aesop]

Oh, I have to admit that if I'm wrong and Christianity is the 'one true way', I'm going to hell. Without a doubt. I work out at a Christian gym, mainly because there is a full service spa on site that will bill to my gym account, so I can get therapy massage when I need it, and not when I can afford it. I ended up purchasing a few extremly tight tank tops with the gym name on the front because... well, let's face it, they're christian shirts and they make me look kind of slutty. Yeah, definitely going to hell if they're right.

--Mali

Well since I like the kind of slutty look I'll see you there.


Okay back on topic....

[Sklaventreiber]

I couldn't agree more and that's why so many of us have a problem with organized religion. I seriously doubt God cares what my political affiliations are, but many organizations would have me believe otherwise and quite frankly if God wants me to vote for the religious right here in this country I'm not sure I want to go to that heaven.

I agree with your statement here Aesop.

I have been away for a while and didn't want to read all that has gone before. I still feel that there is a lot wrong in the world due to religious fanaticism. There are wars and strife brought about by organized religious sects, regardless of the faith they are associated with, Muslim, Christian, buddhist, etc.

But then, when I started this post I made it clear that "organized religion" is not something I adhere to.

[Guest013109]

Hello. Someone from another topic directed me over here.

I do admit I'm being lazy and did not read the first 6 or 7 pages of this thread. However, kind of nice to see this topic mentioned on a BDSM-influenced site.

Personally, I do not like the term 'religion'. For me, it is more about faith and personal beliefs. I attend a great AOG (assembly of God) church I adore. They focus on the life of Jesus, our current society and how to apply Biblical teachings to our current world. Anyways, I'm not one to bash 'religions' and state Christianity is the 'only' way to go. That is something you should personally pray about and work with God about.

I'll try to follow this topic now and chime in when needed. I will not preach on and on about why you should ask God into your lives. However, I'm always available to talk with if you are curious about learning of Christianity or just for general discussion.