Is the Internet making us indifferent?

[TomOfSweden]

Interesting facts for sure, Tom.

Ok, so 99% of rapes are committed by 15 -19 year-olds but do 99% of all 15 -19 year-olds commit rape? Age does not, and can not, mitigate this most heinous of crimes. We're civilised human beings not animals acting on our basic instincts, not matter what age we are.

I agree that a thing like rape is pretty far off the deep end. But this I'm guessing is a cultural thing. It has to do with what adult behavioiur kids are trying to emulate and how they interpret the background of this behaviour. Adults rarely do what they say.

In Sweden we have to deal with the fact that a distressing majority of all sexual assaults are carried out by young Middle Eastern immigrants and/or children of Middle Eastern immigrants. I think we can be fairly confident that none of their parents incite them or even tell their kids that rape is ok. This is an issue with how cultural values and tacit rules are transferred to our young. There's obviously a cultural mismatch between how the Middle Eastern kids in the Middle Easterners are kept in line and ethnically Middle Eastern kids in Sweden. I have no idea how common rape is in the Middle East, (there are no reliable statistics) but I personally, am pretty confident no culture condones rape and I'd be very surprised if it was high over there.

Here's the question: who's fault is it that these Middle Eastern kids haven't been taught how to behave when in Sweden? Who's fault it is that a young kid hasn't learned acceptable social boundaries? It seems obvious that there's a problem, but is it only their fault? Will castration solve this problem? Of course we should punish them to let them know they've done wrong. I'm not taking away blame from the kids. I'm a strong believer in punishing the one who did the crime and not society. But I've got no illusions about this not being a solution. As far as I'm concerned it's only consolation for the victims.

I don't have a good answer for a quick solution. I'm assuming it'll sort itself out in time. As has always happened when cultures collide. We take the best bits from both, reject the rest and create a new improved amalgam culture. The constant machinery of civilisation building. I think the best/only way to combat it is simply to be publicly horrified, just like you are doing now with this thread. Right now, you and I and everybody else reading this thread is changing our culture. Refining and updating it. Letting people know your strong opinions on the matter in casual conversation.

I'm convinced we can't punish ourselves out of this hole in an instant. By turning to harsher punishments and bringing down the law as hard as we can, all our prior experience, (ie science) tells us that what we'll get is not only simply poor and Middle Eastern people with a severe criminal record marginalising them further, but also perpetuating the behaviour we're trying to solve with the punishment. People just don't react to punishment like we seem to hope they'll do. It may be logical, but it isn't human nature. If we identify with being anti-establishment we'll keep being anti until the time when establishment feels like including us. The worst thing that can happen is that they feel persecuted as a group. Then we can be sure they'll never address it, since that would be tantamount to admitting some kind of racial inferiority.

Let me ask you this: Do you think those snotty noised little bastards would think a little longer and harder about committing rape if they knew getting caught would mean they'd, quite literally, have to pay with their balls?

This old argument. Nobody commits a crime if they think they might get caught. No culture has ever condoned rape. The stigma alone of being outed as a rapist in circles beyond ones closest friends, I'm sure is a lot harsher than any prison sentence or punishment will ever be. Compare it to wife-beating. It's still going strong all over the world, in spite of the stigma attached. Nobody respects a wife beater. Just like nobody ever respects a rapist.

I think it would say that we consider the morals and well being of majority of our community, who are doing the right thing, to be more important than that of individuals who choose to do the wrong thing in committing this most heinous of crimes. And, that we are prepared to deter potential rapists in the strongest possible way.

However, I don't feel it's a moot point, since it's never going happen--not in my lifetime anyway.

I agree we should do what we can to prevent rape. I'm sure we'll all agree that the right not to have sex should be universal. But harsh punishments only seem to work as deterrents against people who wouldn't have done it anyway. As always it's very complicated once we start scraping at the surface.